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Post by gopher in heat on Sept 16, 2010 12:22:54 GMT -5
In my opinion, the first Phantasm is the best one. I have a plethora of reasons why I believe this, but a main one is that I like how the events take place in the hometown of these two brothers, and the outside world has no idea what's going on.
Heck, even Mike for a good chunk of the movie is simply worried about getting his big brother to believe him. It's believable. In the subsequent films, it's passed off as the Tall Man is going from town to town, pillaging the graveyards and turning various places into vacant ghost towns. This works, to a degree, but it undermines something I think is key to the series... being an isolated incident.
This is why none of the sequels capture that charm of the first film. Now that the Tall Man is destroying town after town, the story has become BIGGER than just two brothers. It's lost the "personal" in exchange for the "grandiose". I love all the sequels, don't get me wrong. I just love them in a different way. This would also be why for me, Phantasm IV is the 2nd best in the series--the shift was more toward "personal" again (although it doesn't come close to capturing the feel of the first).
Am I alone in thinking this? I sometimes wonder what the sequels would have been like had Don done things differently. Kept things in Morningside. Kept the focus on the relationship of the brothers. Not made the Tall Man and his sinister motives a worldly threat, but kept it a strange occurrence happening in a random town.
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Post by floyd on Sept 16, 2010 12:28:48 GMT -5
In my opinion, the first Phantasm is the best one too, Gopher! Amazing atmosphere of a small city
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Post by Natalie on Sept 16, 2010 13:02:41 GMT -5
I totally agree with you Tony. It one of the reasons why I like the first one the best. It has a "home" feeling to it. I like how it is about Mike and Jody (with the occasional Reg on the side), but mainly about the two of them. They reached out to the audience on a personal level.
And what I like best about Oblivion and it being second on my favourite list is that we learn more about The Tall Man. We learn about his past and such, but it still leaves room for more speculation. What we know is still not enough.
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Post by bcg1969 on Sept 17, 2010 0:53:49 GMT -5
I think that almost 10 years between the films made a difference and of course dealing with a big studio, plus Don was still fresh/younger when he did the 1st one.
Unless Don did a sequel say in 81 or by 83, i don't think he could have recaptured the feel of the 1st one.
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Post by lmsunshine on Sept 17, 2010 3:42:56 GMT -5
I love the 1st film because that's how it was growing up as a kid in the 70's. With my 2 older brothers in the suburbs (dirt bikes, fire crackers, cool cars). And how many times did I check the phone booths to see if there was any change in there.
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Post by pumpmonkey on Sept 17, 2010 8:37:24 GMT -5
I'm pretty certain we're all in agreement that #1 is the best. Even if by "Movie Standards" it isn't. And the primary reasons for this have nothing to do with revenue, or critical standards. #1) IT WAS OUR FIRSTIt was the one we all saw first. And, much like a song you hear, it is usually the version you heard first that sticks with you. You identify with it the most, (even if it is not the original) and you come to love it to the point where it could be called "comfortable" because every time you hear it, you experience the familiar emotions/memories. And, like your first love, it's the one you never forget. However things turned out the first time you fell in love (or thought you did) be it a wild ride, bittersweet romance, or a melancholy drama with a sad ending...However your first love came and went, its something that *always* stays with you. #2) IDENTIFICATION - Many of us were of a similar age as Mike in the movie (and with some of us (me included) we are actually close to the same age in real life). Also, even with those of us who are younger, when we saw that movie, it conjured up memories of our past. Memories we could all identify with. The things Mike said and did along with the situations he was going through. And as LMSUNSHINE pointed out I also checked every phone booth for change! The over-all marvel for me regarding P-II was that it broke from the usual tradition and instead of the single antagonist chasing down and eliminating the heroes one by one, they took the battle to 'Him'! Here endith the pontification....
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Post by gopher in heat on Sept 17, 2010 12:25:36 GMT -5
I can understand what you're all saying, but the point of my initial post was that in terms of plot, I think Phantasm (the first one) works best because the events are isolated to this *one* town with this *one* family (Reggie aside). I mean for all we the audience knows, this could just be a creepy Tall Man who does insidious things at this one mausoleum... a hometown horror story. It isn't really until P2 that we find out the Tall Man's plans are on a much larger scale... and now the whole world is potentially involved. It's no longer just a hometown horror story, it's something much bigger, which causes the sequels to lose a lot of their charm and feeling the first film had.
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Post by pumpmonkey on Sept 17, 2010 14:22:19 GMT -5
I get what you're saying GOPHER. And I agree about the charm of the film (who would have thought I'd use the word "charm" when discussing a horror flick?) and to that end, may I submit that the reinforcement of that charm is because of the following movies. It is the expansion of The Tall Man and his influence in the subsequent films has made P-I such a cherished movie...
...just a personal thought/observation...
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Post by prymal on Sept 19, 2010 10:49:42 GMT -5
Good observation Gopher! I personally take all of the movies as one "big" movie, but i c what u r saying. I too have said again and again in the newer horror movies that "epic" is 2 much. Why do i have to save the world?? If i have a zombie horde outside of my isolated mansion in the deep south, that is all that matters! Why does it have to be the world?? If i am about to die from demons in a graveyard, i really don't care if its nationally or just the poor choice of the graveyard i'm standin' in at the time, lol!
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Post by lmsunshine on Sept 20, 2010 10:36:21 GMT -5
It isn't really until P2 that we find out the Tall Man's plans are on a much larger scale... and now the whole world is potentially involved. It's no longer just a hometown horror story, it's something much bigger, which causes the sequels to lose a lot of their charm and feeling the first film had. If Don didn't cut the hanging tree scene in P1, we would have known that TTM was a much larger scale. Before Mike cuts TTM down, he says “you’re killing the world”.
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Post by gopher in heat on Sept 21, 2010 0:30:41 GMT -5
You're right, and I did think of that. But since it was indeed cut from the first film, I can't really count it. Besides, it always sort of confused me why Mike would say "you're destroying the world!"... where did he get this idea? As far as Mike knew, things were limited just to his town. He had no way of knowing the Tall Man was destroying the world.
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Post by prymal on Sept 22, 2010 19:37:44 GMT -5
Mike had a vision from the tall man even at that early stage of the story, things he picked up on as the tall man brushed his psyche, a great mental battle of the wills. They actually battled it out in a completely metaphysical plane in the blink of an eye! It's right here in Don Coscarelli's Source book: A Walk With Destiny in the World of Phantasm. *Sigh* not really, i just made that up d**n, that sounded good for a minute didn't it?! Almost believable!!
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Post by lmsunshine on Sept 22, 2010 20:28:15 GMT -5
It's right here in Don Coscarelli's Source book: A Walk With Destiny in the World of Phantasm. *Sigh* not really, i just made that up d**n, that sounded good for a minute didn't it?! Almost believable!!
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Post by DustinM on Sept 23, 2010 21:45:36 GMT -5
You're right, and I did think of that. But since it was indeed cut from the first film, I can't really count it. Besides, it always sort of confused me why Mike would say "you're destroying the world!"... where did he get this idea? As far as Mike knew, things were limited just to his town. He had no way of knowing the Tall Man was destroying the world. I'd like to throw in a comment to this interesting conversation. "You're killing the world!" This line from the Tall Man's hanging scene has been misunderstood since it first debuted in Oblivion, some twenty years after they filmed it. The truth is that Don Coscarelli re-appropriated it in that film. Within the context of Oblivion, it certainly does refer to the scope of the Tall Man's destruction - he's out for the world. But when viewed within the context of the original film, this line has a very different meaning. The Tall Man was focused on Mike in P1, not on some worldwide plot. When viewed in P4, Mike and Jody head home after the Tall Man's hanging and it's the mortician's unearthly whispers that beckon Mike back to the hanging tree. This scene played out differently in P1 and when Coscarelli cut it into Oblivion, he removed a few lines. You see, originally, Mike wasn't awakened by the Tall Man's whispers on the night air. He woke up the next morning as usual and noticed the sun wasn't up when it should've been. He went outside, investigated, re-checked the time - something was seriously screwed up. That's why Mike returns to the Tall Man. And it's not that Mike cuts him down because he thinks the Tall Man will behave himself. Mike originally cuts the Tall Man down so that he'll release the sun. After all, without the sun - our planet would die. This is what "You're killing the world" refers to. So in short, Don never intended for the Tall Man's scope to be worldwide. That was exclusively a sequels concept.
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Post by gopher in heat on Sept 23, 2010 22:52:15 GMT -5
Ah sorry for my misquote, I knew it was "you're killing the world" not "you're destroying the world". Silly man, I am.
Thanks for the clarification there, Dustin. I knew Don never intended for the Tall Man's scope to be a worldwide thing, so it always sort of stuck me as odd that Mike would ever say that line. Makes more sense now. But I wonder more about this whole no sun situation... very interesting story idea. I wonder also where Don was going with that angle, and if he had any further ideas along those lines.
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Post by lmsunshine on Sept 24, 2010 16:21:00 GMT -5
That's why Mike returns to the Tall Man. And it's not that Mike cuts him down because he thinks the Tall Man will behave himself. Mike originally cuts the Tall Man down so that he'll release the sun. After all, without the sun - our planet would die. This is what "You're killing the world" refers to. hmmmm...very interesting....now hurry up and upload Guy's videos...jk..no rush..but then again
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Post by DustinM on Sept 24, 2010 20:24:38 GMT -5
That's why Mike returns to the Tall Man. And it's not that Mike cuts him down because he thinks the Tall Man will behave himself. Mike originally cuts the Tall Man down so that he'll release the sun. After all, without the sun - our planet would die. This is what "You're killing the world" refers to. hmmmm...very interesting....now hurry up and upload Guy's videos...jk..no rush..but then again Uploaded!
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Post by OblivionGoon on Sept 28, 2010 6:56:32 GMT -5
A little graphic I threw together. My interpretation is that P1 is the highest in percentage of isolation, d**n near 100%. It then drops way off for P2 and creeps up for P3 then goes up to about 75% for P4. Thoughts? Attachments:
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Post by Hellbound on Jul 3, 2011 19:23:36 GMT -5
You're right, and I did think of that. But since it was indeed cut from the first film, I can't really count it. Besides, it always sort of confused me why Mike would say "you're destroying the world!"... where did he get this idea? As far as Mike knew, things were limited just to his town. He had no way of knowing the Tall Man was destroying the world. I'd like to throw in a comment to this interesting conversation. "You're killing the world!" This line from the Tall Man's hanging scene has been misunderstood since it first debuted in Oblivion, some twenty years after they filmed it. The truth is that Don Coscarelli re-appropriated it in that film. Within the context of Oblivion, it certainly does refer to the scope of the Tall Man's destruction - he's out for the world. But when viewed within the context of the original film, this line has a very different meaning. The Tall Man was focused on Mike in P1, not on some worldwide plot. When viewed in P4, Mike and Jody head home after the Tall Man's hanging and it's the mortician's unearthly whispers that beckon Mike back to the hanging tree. This scene played out differently in P1 and when Coscarelli cut it into Oblivion, he removed a few lines. You see, originally, Mike wasn't awakened by the Tall Man's whispers on the night air. He woke up the next morning as usual and noticed the sun wasn't up when it should've been. He went outside, investigated, re-checked the time - something was seriously screwed up. That's why Mike returns to the Tall Man. And it's not that Mike cuts him down because he thinks the Tall Man will behave himself. Mike originally cuts the Tall Man down so that he'll release the sun. After all, without the sun - our planet would die. This is what "You're killing the world" refers to. So in short, Don never intended for the Tall Man's scope to be worldwide. That was exclusively a sequels concept. Killing the world sounds worldwide, whether it refers to going from town to town, sending people to an early grave then robbing their graves, or stopping the Earth from revolving and destroying the ecosystem. In some ways, it makes him far more powerful than he's ever depicted as being in the sequels.
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Post by KillerSphere on Jul 6, 2011 8:54:59 GMT -5
Man I would love to see that scene as it was originally intended. The Tall Man can stop the sun from rising? Sign me up. Is this available to view any where? Thanks for digging this old thread up, I somehow managed to miss this.
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