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Post by jjrakman on Sept 20, 2014 22:38:48 GMT -5
In Part I we see those black barrels with the clear slit windows in them, that contain the dwarves for transport to the red planet.
But in the white room we also see 3 stacks of black barrels that are a bit different with no slit windows in them.
Do they contain something we haven't seen yet?
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Post by jjrakman on Sept 20, 2014 22:50:50 GMT -5
Yes. That's part of it, it also is what leads me to think that it's a kind of walk-in spirit that has taken over Jebediah's body, or perhaps has taken his form, since when one facsimile is destroyed, another takes its place.
Well, I think it might just be due to the fact that there would be only one "manager" per small town or operation.
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Post by jjrakman on Sept 20, 2014 22:53:57 GMT -5
Only insomuch as it provides great material for discussion and debate.
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Post by fantasyball on Sept 21, 2014 16:45:27 GMT -5
Hi,
Yes discussion is great. I wont stop you on a meta-level, I will only stop your arguments... LOL
Keep on posting.
When it comes to what chanced Tally when he for the first time went into the dimensional forks, is only described as "Jebediah never came back" or something by Jody, and at the same time Tally comes out.
I think it is important to understand the "phantasms" on the basis of what is actually SAID or SHOWN in the movies.
Ofc you can always BELIEVE what you like, but nothing is ever said about an alien or any alien life-form shown throughout the movies to build that on, except your belief. Nor a spirit.
Why he is only 1 Tally at the time, is for me easy to explain: lots of phans say he is the Grim reaper; you can't kill Death himself, and Death is only manifested in one person - as in the myths. You can only slow him down (put him on ice) or trick him for more time...
But in part V we might get more answers, said or shown to us (or we won't).
Until then discuss till you drop!! =) Thx for showing interest.
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Post by fantasyball on Sept 21, 2014 16:50:33 GMT -5
The only "life-form" Tally is filled with is Death himself, if that is a life-form....
And here comes Mike! Mike = life, Tally = death, both as yin-yang in Mikes head/in the movies.
On the top of the hierarchy is Tally on second place, and Mike is on first/top/master of the phantasm universe.
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Post by fantasyball on Sept 21, 2014 17:09:12 GMT -5
What we know for sure is that Tally got changed -- somehow. Jebediah into Tall Man.
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Post by jjrakman on Sept 21, 2014 20:45:16 GMT -5
So, in Phantasm II, we have the vision of the girl Mike dreamed about, Liz, with a weird head of the Tall Man coming out of her back.
We have the undead return of the old man who laid in bed next to his widow.
We have Chemy with a silver ball in her head.
Where do these oddities fit into the overall scheme of things?
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Post by fantasyball on Sept 22, 2014 14:14:04 GMT -5
Town after town is lost to the reign of Tally, and maybe this is how it goes for the town people...
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Post by jjrakman on Sept 22, 2014 19:15:36 GMT -5
I think that holds true to a certain extent.
But the Phantasm films aren't very explanatory. They are highly interpretive in nature, and that's what makes them so fun to watch over and over again.
Well, I think seeing the Red Planet pretty much infers that they are either extraterrestrial or extradimensional beings.
I think the scene where he emerges from the gate, and picks up his own destroyed body, is pretty significant because it indicates that the Tall Man is not centered in the physical self, but rather in the metaphysical and/or mental self.
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Post by fantasyball on Sept 23, 2014 14:28:08 GMT -5
That is true ^^^, never thought on it that way.
You got a good point in the: red planet + reincarnation of Tally = alien spirit thesis. (Ha ha I love this forum/movies)
Yes, a lot of the stuff we need to interpret and make sense out of. And it is plenty of fun!
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Post by fantasyball on Sept 24, 2014 15:49:43 GMT -5
I never considered the Tally-as-an-alien-thesis that much, since I mostly prefer the other way around.
More or less, as I have seen people explain the plot here, you can either see Tall Man as an INVADING alien, from his home world the red planet, or as an EXPANDING force of evil - where Tally is born with Mike's discover in part I. I consider the later to be a more strong argument, but now I understand the invader point of view better.
So we will probably always look at the main plot in one of "these" two ways, generally, as I see it:
1. The INVADING menace: Tall Man is an alien force who possess Jebediah, and becomes an INVADING alien/spirit that comes to Earth to conquer it. Strong arguments are both the alien planet (is it said to be his home world or not?) and also the reincarnation in part III. If Tally is an invading alien/spirit he already are strong enough to take on Earth. This is a more materialistic threat: an alien force, working with illusions.
2. The EXPANDING menace: Tall Man somehow (maybe out of the mind of Mike) starts out at the Morningside cemetery and town by town EXPANDS his reign. Strong arguments: he seem to start small and then expand. He works on several planets, and travel between them in his plan for expansion. Throughout the movies we see him succeed at becoming a king over more and more land. The bound to Mike may be that he first discovered him, this evil spirit. Here Tally is weak to start with and becomes stronger, and his main focus is on Earth "killing the world", as Mike points out in part IV, as if he was Death himself. This is a more psychological threat, and has a large connection with Mike's psyche. Mikes insanity becomes a increasing problem, with Tally as an symbol for his illness.
Both these two MOMENTS will -->crash<-- and not always work together. Mainly: what to you BELIEVE in?
I mostly prefer to see Tall Man as the "Lord of the dead" - and Mike as the "Lord of the living". In the part III subtitle ("Lord of the dead") a lot of the secret, to me, is revealed...
The war between life and death: -You can't kill death himself: that's why he comes back all the time. -The living can be killed. Even the undead can be killed (again) -The dead can be reanimated with the yellow liquid, into living dead/undeads, plus spheres. -Our heroes are trying to save the world from dying: "Your're killing the world!" -there is no life without death, they are two sides of the same coin (existence) where Mike and Tall Man represents one side each.
And we will never know anything for sure, that is the fun with all of it.
Maybe these two movements are possible to put together somehow, I'll need to come back to that (some day).
First, what will RaVanger change...?
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Post by fantasyball on Sept 26, 2014 3:43:59 GMT -5
ofc you can look at it as an expanding alien invasion, but that doesn't explain the relationship between Mike and Tall Man; Tally seems to become ACTIVE the moment Mike discovers/creates him... and after that an growing (expanding) problem for Mike on a personal level, and his take on the world, throughout part 1 to 4...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2014 12:46:55 GMT -5
So, in Phantasm II, we have the vision of the girl Mike dreamed about, Liz, with a weird head of the Tall Man coming out of her back. We have the undead return of the old man who laid in bed next to his widow. We have Chemy with a silver ball in her head. Where do these oddities fit into the overall scheme of things? Well, "traditional" zombies were in the Phantasm series from the start, even if they were always more scarce than the dwarves. Remember those two corpses that burst out of the ground in Mike's graveyard dream or the hands rising out of the mud? And then P3 has the zombie looters, Tim's dad and the wrapped corpses in the mortuary freezer (which grab Tim at the end) and P4 has the twisted undead body in the cop car. And Alchemy would be the same "type" of undead as the Demon Nurse and Trooper, Jennifer (and possibly the Lady in Lavender?). The only ones who doesn't fit in is the Hunchback thing...
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phanboy
Graver
Now this won't hurt a bit. Well, maybe just a little bit.
Posts: 180
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Post by phanboy on Sept 26, 2014 21:33:06 GMT -5
Alchemy seemed more alive then Liz. and they were both more entertaining then "double Mike'
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briggs
Zombie
Unlucky Caretaker
sphere ball attack man throat
Posts: 337
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Post by briggs on Apr 6, 2015 23:25:27 GMT -5
My guesses on these:
"Overminds"/Ravager Sphere - whatever allowed Jebediah to be turned into the Tall Man, provided him with spare bodies and necessitates his task. Speculation, of course.
The Tall Man - the Overminds' main ambassador to Earth and task-manager.
"Mutants" - the fly-thing, the back-thing, the hand-things and more: offshoots of The Tall Man's physiology which directly follow his will.
Gold Spheres - a special crop of more intelligent machines able to take The Tall Man's place if/when the need arises.
Hologram/demon-spheres - spheres which are semi-intelligent, and may take on human form in order to take on complex tasks.
Dwarves - Tall Man's main footsoldiers, deployed for most of his important missions.
Silver Spheres - simpleminded predatory guardians, made for destroying persistent intruders in The Tall Man's schemes, and later repurposed as artillery.
Caretakers - brainwashed, lobotomized, artificial or otherwise coerced humans, in possession of all their higher functions, but mainly used to "keep up appearances" when The Tall Man cannot be present at one of his bases.
Gravers - "grunt" slaves made to carry out menial tasks within mortuaries under The Tall Man's control, though they are equipped for combat too. Possibly controlled like the caretakers, possibly re-animated like the zombies.
Zombies - simple, re-animated humans made at a moment's notice to carry out special tasks when they arise.
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