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Post by phanfan on May 14, 2010 22:20:27 GMT -5
Hi all,
This may just be me, but I've always felt the heart of the original Phantasm was in the relationship between Mike and Jody. Obviously that relationship gets fractured, and by P4 Jody is basically turned into a villain. I'd love to see Mr. Coscarelli recapture that original relationship if a P5 is ever made. I know Jody is supposed to be dead, but hey, this is Phantasm and anything can happen!
The heart of the series has been taken away, imho.
Phanfan
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Post by nitelinger on May 15, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
AHHHH...Just as I have always said ! Attachments:
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Post by DustinM on May 15, 2010 11:52:30 GMT -5
Hi all, This may just be me, but I've always felt the heart of the original Phantasm was in the relationship between Mike and Jody. Obviously that relationship gets fractured, and by P4 Jody is basically turned into a villain. I'd love to see Mr. Coscarelli recapture that original relationship if a P5 is ever made. I know Jody is supposed to be dead, but hey, this is Phantasm and anything can happen! The heart of the series has been taken away, imho. Phanfan I couldn't agree with this more, except to say that I thought Phantasm: Oblivion was a return to what worked in the first film. It was a slow-building character study of the original cast, Mike, Jody, Reggie and the Tall Man. I also hear what you're saying about Jody, but the reason his deflection to the Tall Man's side is so heartbreaking is because we as an audience bought into the Mike/Jody relationship in the first film. Can't much blame Coscarelli for making him a villain or partial villain as it was effective. At the very least, it was satisfying to see the real Jody again in his dying moments of part four. The lack of Jody really, really, really lessened part II in my mind and the fact that both Mike and Jody take a backseat to Reggie in part III make that film less enjoyable for me. I think parts I and IV are the absolute best. That isn't to say that I don't adore II and III, I just think they come up short in the story department. EDIT: Stephen Romano's P5 script absolutely did bring back Jody in a huge way, though he was true to Mike this time and not evil. Roger Avery's attempt at P5 didn't bother much with Jody, if at all, which I found incredibly disappointing.
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Post by postmortem on May 15, 2010 13:32:21 GMT -5
This is a wonderful topic!
I feel that the dynamic between Jody and Mike--brotherly love--was what worked so well in P1 as well. Though I missed Jody in P2 (more in a "what happened???" way), I'd already accepted that he had passed on. That P1 was mainly just Mike's grief stricken nightmare in an attempt to recreate his dead brother, the loyalty he wishes they'd had. Let me clarify this: I always sensed that Jody had been a drifter, a roadie, a family rebel who hadn't gotten along with his strict banker father and had struck out on his own so as not to be saddled with the family business. And I got the impression that Jody wouldn't have come back to town to care for his younger brother, that he'd perished in an auto accident while out travelling about. So, to me, Mike always wished Jody would come back and take care of him, but this isn't necessarily what happened. In fact, Reggie was the one who ultimately stepped up to the plate...
So for me, the sequels were Mike's learning to accept reality without his brother. Learning to defend himself without the help of parents and brother. But always with this longing for his brother--this hope that his brother would return, or not have died. Which is bittersweet. And it's also Mike's Achilles Heel. Who better to confound and bait Mike than Jody? The Tall Man obviously knows this. And if the Tall Man is a grim reaper of sorts, then he would definitely have Jody in his back pocket.
What's wonderful to me is that Jody's spirit shines through at the end. Just when you begin to think that Jody is just an alter ego of the Tall Man, you get a glimpse of the true soul and love behind him. So Mike's departed brother is there--free for a few tender moments--to speak to Mike without the control of the Tall Man.
So, I agree that I would have loved more of Mike and Jody, but I think the absence of and strange actions of the older brother, help add to the pathos of Mike's situation. Mike is kind of like Orpheus, going down into an alien "underworld" of sorts, trying to locate and regain the spirit of his beloved/deceased brother. Or, at the very least, he's trying to avenge his brother's death by going after the Tall Man.
Speaking of characters--back to basics--that I sorely missed... The Lady in Lavender. I truly wished the Tall Man hadn't manifested as the other women. I would have liked him to stick with the Lady in Lavender. There is something really haunting about her. I always felt that she was a major part of Jebediah's past life. Unlocking the secret of the Lady would help better understand the Tall Man...
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Post by phanfan on May 15, 2010 14:33:51 GMT -5
This is a wonderful topic! I feel that the dynamic between Jody and Mike--brotherly love--was what worked so well in P1 as well. Though I missed Jody in P2 (more in a "what happened???" way), I'd already accepted that he had passed on. That P1 was mainly just Mike's grief stricken nightmare in an attempt to recreate his dead brother, the loyalty he wishes they'd had. Let me clarify this: I always sensed that Jody had been a drifter, a roadie, a family rebel who hadn't gotten along with his strict banker father and had struck out on his own so as not to be saddled with the family business. And I got the impression that Jody wouldn't have come back to town to care for his younger brother, that he'd perished in an auto accident while out travelling about. So, to me, Mike always wished Jody would come back and take care of him, but this isn't necessarily what happened. In fact, Reggie was the one who ultimately stepped up to the plate... Wow, that is an interesting take on the the brother relationship. I never once thought of Mike as wishing they had been close; I assumed they always were and Mike simply longed for that again. Regarding Reggie stepping up to the plate, that is one of the elements about P4 that really bothers me. I don't mind Reggie being so close to Mike, but Mike makes that point very clear to his brother. He says "Reggie was always there for me, not you", or something to that effect. That bugs me because it casts doubt on how I felt their initial relationship was in P1. I want a happy ending! Phanfan
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Post by postmortem on May 15, 2010 17:49:26 GMT -5
... Mike makes that point very clear to his brother. He says "Reggie was always there for me, not you", or something to that effect. That bugs me because it casts doubt on how I felt their initial relationship was in P1. You mean I might actually be onto something...? I always have a way of looking at things differently. That is what's so fun about the "Phantasm" universe.
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Post by pumpmonkey on May 15, 2010 18:51:56 GMT -5
Very interesting. Personally, I never looked at it quite that way, and it *does* make sense. To me, it seemed to me that the duo of Mike & Reggie was a natural progression. Considering Jody was dead...
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Post by lmsunshine on May 16, 2010 0:13:01 GMT -5
I think parts I and IV are the absolute best. That isn't to say that I don't adore II and III, I just think they come up short in the story department. I absolutely agree. And I just adore Jebediah in IV....well I'm off to watch Human Centipede now
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vitaman2007
Sentinel Sphere
"Be de be de be de...f#@ you Buck!"
Posts: 698
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Post by vitaman2007 on May 16, 2010 18:04:58 GMT -5
I think if Mike wasn't pulled through into the netherworld at the end, it (P1) would've been just "Mike's grief stricken nightmare in an attempt to recreate his dead brother". In a sense Mike, by being taken, was vindicated; that it was the Tall Man and his minions that took Jody and his family.
But then the end of P4 loops back, with the final scene, into ambiguity once again.
I was also disappointed at not seeing the entire original cast in P2. A major studio blunder. It just seems ridiculous that the trio would've been too costly or whatever it was about.
It's armchair quarterbacking now, but I do think the Jody and Mike relationship was the fulcrum of the first movie. I often think of the scene after the Tall Man gets buried with rocks down at the Singers Creek mine shaft; Mike looking up at his brother at the top of the mountain, triumphantly celebrating their mission.
I wonder if the original P2 script had a lot of Jody in it before Don got the orders from the studio.
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Post by bald ex-ice cream vendor on May 17, 2010 13:46:35 GMT -5
This is a wonderful topic! I feel that the dynamic between Jody and Mike--brotherly love--was what worked so well in P1 as well. Though I missed Jody in P2 (more in a "what happened???" way), I'd already accepted that he had passed on. That P1 was mainly just Mike's grief stricken nightmare in an attempt to recreate his dead brother, the loyalty he wishes they'd had. Let me clarify this: I always sensed that Jody had been a drifter, a roadie, a family rebel who hadn't gotten along with his strict banker father and had struck out on his own so as not to be saddled with the family business. And I got the impression that Jody wouldn't have come back to town to care for his younger brother, that he'd perished in an auto accident while out travelling about. So, to me, Mike always wished Jody would come back and take care of him, but this isn't necessarily what happened. In fact, Reggie was the one who ultimately stepped up to the plate... Wow, that is an interesting take on the the brother relationship. I never once thought of Mike as wishing they had been close; I assumed they always were and Mike simply longed for that again. Regarding Reggie stepping up to the plate, that is one of the elements about P4 that really bothers me. I don't mind Reggie being so close to Mike, but Mike makes that point very clear to his brother. He says "Reggie was always there for me, not you", or something to that effect. That bugs me because it casts doubt on how I felt their initial relationship was in P1. I want a happy ending! Phanfan Maybe because during the first act (and really, the theme of the entire first movie--at least in my view) is because Jody keeps threatening to leave Mike behind in China Grove and go off to do his own thing. Alternate endings for the film (shot or unshot, I don't know) allude to the fact that the first Phantasm is just a dream personifying Mike's fear of Jody's abandonment (hence one of those alternate endings being Jody marrying the Lady in Lavender and the Tall Man presiding over the ceremony!). So maybe that accounts for some of the coldness Mike feels towards his brother; because Jody never wanted to stay.
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