|
Post by DustinM on Jun 16, 2011 7:42:50 GMT -5
Here's a question I pose to anyone with an opinion and truly, there's no right answer.
Would you rather have the four quality Phantasm films we currently have now...
OR....
Would you rather have eight Phantasm films of diminishing quality?
I'd like to bring up the HELLRAISER series with that second option, which has nose-dived in quality with numerous direct-to-video sequels. The most recent and seemingly worst, Hellraiser: Revelations was made for an incredible $300,000 and produced strictly as a way to keep the film rights active until a proper remake can be mounted. By all accounts, Revelations is a terrible new low for the series as even original Pinhead actor Doug Bradley refused to come onboard.
Then again, say what you will about the Hellraiser franchise, those fans have gotten a new movie every couple years. The property has remained alive and popular and its merchandising has been top-notch, always. But then again, the films themselves have mostly been garbage.
What do you think? More Tall Man and Mike at lesser quality? Would it be worth it? Or would you lose interest?
|
|
|
Post by postmortem on Jun 16, 2011 10:26:13 GMT -5
That's a good question... Much as I think multiple (diminishing quality) films would have kept interest in the franchise alive and kicking, it would probably have turned away a lot of otherwise enthusiastic loyalists. Though continuing films would have meant continuing pay for the cast (can't say much for the crew profiting), it wouldn't do much good to lose the collaboration of stars like Mr. Scrimm if they'd felt the subject material wasn't worth it.
So... I'm firmly on the side of keeping with four stellar films.
I will note that merchandising a franchise goes a longggg way in keeping up interest, profit and the potential of (better) sequels. I wish the "Phantasm" films had spawned a lot more products. It really deserved it.
PS Today marks my 32nd anniversary of seeing "Phantasm" for the first time in a theater. Yay!
|
|
|
Post by The Never Dead on Jun 16, 2011 12:36:56 GMT -5
I'll keep what we have because Phantasm is one of the handful of horror series that doesn't have a crap entry. If we'd have eight, I'm sure a few would be up crap alley.
I like the Hellraiser series a lot but there are a few sequels that are "meh." I still need to watch Deader and Hellworld but own them both. Inferno and Hellseeker are so-so. And I actually dug Bloodline even though it's not too great of a film. Love the first three quite a bit, especially the Cenobite from 3 that shoots CDs. So ridiculous I can't hate it haha.
|
|
|
Post by gopher in heat on Jun 16, 2011 16:20:02 GMT -5
I think you'd be hard pressed to find any fan who said they wanted 8 sub-par sequels. I think we can collectively agree that Phantasm has four very solid films. We're lucky, in all honesty. That isn't to say all four films are perfect--they aren't. Each one, save for the original (in my opinion), have some sort of flaw to them. But honestly, the flaws that are there are minimal in the scheme of things. The point is, there isn't a stinker in the group, and that's something we can all be happy about. I think that fact is one of the things that sets us (the Phans) apart from the followers of other known horror franchises/series.
|
|
|
Post by lmsunshine on Jun 16, 2011 16:29:03 GMT -5
I would NEVER lose interest watching Angus but I'm very happy with the 4 philms. No need for a 5th or series for me. Would rather see Angus do other projects.
|
|
|
Post by Natalie on Jun 16, 2011 16:41:21 GMT -5
I would rather have the four quality films than eight films of diminishing quality. Having multiple sequels only ruins the story since they lose track of the original story line.
I recently watched Hellworld a few days ago and was very disappointed. I feel these types of films keep the franchise alive but mainly to add more gore just to keep the attention of the audience and to add more fans, in this case under the Hellraiser name due to the large fan base. I feel the same way about the Saw movies. They just become more gruesome if not the same, and the story ends up changing to something ridiculous.
When it comes to the Phantasm franchise, the story has always remained consistent. Each film takes place exactly where the previous one left off. It's a continuation of the same story, with the same characters, and the same problems. We grow with the characters over time, whereas in Hellraiser we have no clue about the timeline and each film seems to have been randomly made up with a story. I have no connection or feel any sympathy for the characters because I haven't been able to experience what they go through. In Phantasm, we all grew up with Mike. We have been with him since he was a boy to adulthood.
That is what I feel what makes the quality of the films.
|
|
TEOS
Drilled
Posts: 45
|
Post by TEOS on Jun 16, 2011 22:03:35 GMT -5
I think it's kind of unfair to compare Hellraiser to Phantasm. It's apples and oranges.
A horror series that has the same writer/director and cast and crew for each entry---that's unheard of. The Hellraiser movies were clearly cash grabs, especially with all the DTV sequels that followed Bloodline. Each film had a different writer/director, and so they therefore approached the series with different intentions. Too many chefs in the soup, or however the expression goes. You would not achieve a continuous series, one feeding into the next, in this manner. Not to mention each successive Hellraiser sequel following Bloodline (Inferno, Hellseeker, Deader, and Hellworld) were not even originally written as official Hellraiser sequels. They were "original" scripts that the Brothers Weinstein saw fit to cram Pinhead into and release them as such to make a bit more cash.
If Don were writing and directing each Phantasm movie, and if the cast was consistent, then yes, I would take as many sequels as he saw fit to give us. I, personally, think Phantasm 3 is a mess. I wouldn't refer to it as a solid film. BUT it does contain interesting ideas and revelations that add to the Phantasm mythos. That, to me, is enough to justify its own existence.
|
|
|
Post by bigphan1990 on Jun 19, 2011 0:31:42 GMT -5
All I want is one more Phantasm film. That's all. Because it's nearing the end and Angus isn't going to live forever.
|
|
|
Post by lmsunshine on Jun 19, 2011 9:54:04 GMT -5
All I want is one more Phantasm film. That's all. Because it's nearing the end and Angus isn't going to live forever. Will there be another Phantasm film? Here's Angus' answer from the MM con a few weeks ago...And when I met him...I truly think he can live forever
|
|
briggs
Zombie
Unlucky Caretaker
sphere ball attack man throat
Posts: 337
|
Post by briggs on Jun 19, 2011 19:03:43 GMT -5
How "diminishing quality" are we talking about?
"Hellraiser" diminishing quality I would actually be A-OK with, so long as the scripts were still good and Don still had creative control/the freedom to hire his own crew. Later Hellraiser sequels got away with good enough production values to tell their story, and I have faith that Don would take all the better advantage of what he was given than someone who just wants to crank out a paranormal thriller involving the lament configuration.
If we're talking "Puppet Master" diminishing quality where by the end there's only enough cash left to shoot in China or do a clip-show whilst re-using footage and saying it's meant to take place in the present... that's different, and definitely not preferable to the series as it stands. Same goes for "Saw" diminishing quality where the budget only gets higher and higher, but by the end it's idiot producers running the show for "maximum marketability."
|
|
RAH8K9
Drilled
Trapped on the Red Planet
Posts: 38
|
Post by RAH8K9 on Aug 10, 2011 18:26:01 GMT -5
I would rather keep our Phantasm series as is instead of seeing it remade or have more inclusions without proper authenticity. Unfortunately I think all cast members have reached the point where they would be totally out of age continuity. Even Mike's age increase/hair change in P4 caught my eye.
The Hellraiser series would have been better if Clive Barker was more in control of the stories and I agree that they turned into something else after Bloodline. We don't need to see the Tall Man popping up in 'other' people's mirrors to punish them. This is what sets Phantasm apart from other franchises, its ability to be different and still have common horror/sci-fi movie traits found in most i.e. gore, nudity, etc.
Phantasm should be embalmed and preserved for future generations!
|
|
|
Post by prymal on Aug 10, 2011 20:26:14 GMT -5
I have all but given up on Phantasm 5, but looking back it is awesome to have 4 great films. Totally unheard of, especially given the long time span in between films. I am glad it ended on a high note and would not want Phantasm tarnished by a lackluster chain of unworthy sequels. Just ask the Friday the 13th or Halloween fans-quantity is not quality.
|
|
|
Post by thetallwoman on Sept 14, 2011 23:18:39 GMT -5
I love the series, but have to dispute the notion that the four films we have now are all high quality. I LOVED the first one. Really liked IV. I thought II dropped the ball (pardon the pun) entirely. I thought III was sort of "meh". What I'd like to see happen is for Coscarelli to take a page out of Wes Craven's book and make a Phantasm film something along the lines of "Wes Craven's New Nightmare" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wes_Craven%27s_New_NightmareSo much of the appeal of the movie is the attachment fans have for the actors. So to do a sort of metafilm, about the dreamy world of the Tall Man invading the reality of the cast -- wow, that could be something. It would also have the advantage of being able to be done with a relatively small budget (hopefully, no exploding cars...someone send Coscarelli to Car Explosions Anonymous).
|
|
|
Post by scubasteve on Sept 15, 2011 2:01:00 GMT -5
I think I've said this before, but I think a mini series (TV based) would be some sort of middle ground I would enjoy. Get HBO to do some creepy "Carnivale" type series mixed with a bit of "Supernatural". That would allow the opportunity to explore some back story a bit more and unravel some secrets and tie up loose ends. I don't think I'd want 8 rubbish movies like NOES and Hellraiser. I lost that after number 5. I think I've seen revelations and that was pants. I agree when people say that loyal fans would walk away from the series, merchandise or not.
|
|
vitaman2007
Sentinel Sphere
"Be de be de be de...f#@ you Buck!"
Posts: 698
|
Post by vitaman2007 on Sept 15, 2011 8:10:24 GMT -5
I'd have to go with the four. But if Don was involved somehow with the production I'm sure there would be some good installments.
Having recently viewed NOES 5 -8 I do think there were some really good visual moments in some of those. Probably because the producer of the original, Robert Shaye, was involved (even making a cameo in one).
Don never sold out so we have 4 solid films, with I and IV being the best sequential entries.
|
|
|
Post by barongraves on Sept 27, 2011 11:08:53 GMT -5
I liked how IV ended, with loose ends, unanswered questions and the sense that we were back in 1978.
I wouldn't like more films with lame stories just to have a Phantasm film. Jason goes to Manhattan? Please. I look at it like the Phanstasm films went out the right way...on top.
|
|
|
Post by lupus on Nov 10, 2011 7:10:33 GMT -5
Personally, I'm happy that Phantasm didn't get bastardized like most of the other horror films such as Halloween, Hellraiser, etc. Three sequels of decent quality is enough(but that may be because Don himself was involved in it! Then again, Goerge Lucas showed everyone that you can trash up your own series badly...) and while a fifth film would be nice, I'm thankful that Phantasm didn't catch "sequelitis" to the same degree as other horror films and hopefully will never get the remake treatment. Perhaps it was because it's such a strange film...
|
|
|
Post by 4barrelhemi on Nov 20, 2011 6:21:34 GMT -5
I'll stick with 4 quality films myself. I would LOVE to see a P5 but at the same time I thought the way Oblivion ended was one of the best endings of any movie I've seen.
|
|
|
Post by krakenslayer on Nov 20, 2011 10:35:10 GMT -5
See the thing is, the Hellraiser films plunged in quality when Clive Barker stopped writing them. Now, as far as I know, the rights to the Phantasm concept are held by Don Coscarelli himself. Unless he sells the rights, we're not going to see some other chumps coming in and pissing all over his ideas like you saw with the Hellraiser series.
Bearing this in mind, then, I would be happy to see any new Phantasm film provided Don was involved, no matter how low budget or rushed it was. We'll always have the originals after all, and there's always the chance something great might come out of it. If it doesn't - meh - no loss: we still have the originals.
Also consider: we have already seen one cheapjack straight-to-video Phantasm sequel - Phantasm IV - and yet we all still love it, and some even consider it the best of the series.
|
|