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Post by jjrakman on Apr 9, 2014 19:30:20 GMT -5
At least, according to this article:
It doesn't say where it gets this info from.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2014 21:45:39 GMT -5
too terrible to contemplate.
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Post by DustinM on Apr 9, 2014 22:12:41 GMT -5
too terrible to contemplate. Well no studio can just "decide" to remake it. Don would have to okay it first since he still owns Phantasm. But just so you know, Don almost let New Line remake it back in 2005 from a script he co-wrote with Stephen Romano and that remake would have been possibly the greatest remake ever. The new characters were terrific and Mike, Reggie and the Tall Man all returned in supporting roles. And what's wrong with young? Michael Baldwin was 13 when they made P1. Bill Thornbury was 26. Paula Irvine was like 19 on P2.
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TEOS
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Post by TEOS on Apr 9, 2014 22:51:51 GMT -5
And what's wrong with young? Michael Baldwin was 13 when they made P1. Bill Thornbury was 26. Paula Irvine was like 19 on P2. Back then, casting young was an artistic choice. Back then, it was mainly adults who went to the movies. Hollywood is skewing young these days simply because that's the only demographic still going to the movies. Old farts like us have been chased out by the brats who can't put their phones away for 90 minutes without having an anxiety attack. So they cast flavor-of-the-week kids yanked from television shows that, by the time I finish typing this sentence, have already been canceled and forgotten.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2014 23:10:21 GMT -5
add to that, that i'm simply not interested in another take on the material. not now. the same goes for any property you can name. this current cycle that we're in of slapping together a factory-made do-over of anything that once had a hint of marquee value seems (at the very least) wasteful. short-sighted. not everybody will agree with that, but, hey . . .
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Post by DustinM on Apr 9, 2014 23:41:06 GMT -5
TEOS and Spookyencounters, I see your points. But you can still cast young people and not completely gear the film toward that same demographic and *that* is what I would like to see. A respectful new run at the material. I'm still hopeful that Phantasm could be remade in a classy way once we wrap up this current storyline. If that remake were able to incorporate or acknowledge the previous film's story (per the 2005 remake), then I'm even more for it.
But if we end up with another F13 or Elm Street remake, count me out completely.
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Post by phantasmaniac on Apr 9, 2014 23:50:06 GMT -5
As long as Don is involved I wouldn't mind a remake.
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TEOS
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Post by TEOS on Apr 10, 2014 18:58:02 GMT -5
TEOS and Spookyencounters, I see your points. But you can still cast young people and not completely gear the film toward that same demographic and *that* is what I would like to see. A respectful new run at the material. I'm still hopeful that Phantasm could be remade in a classy way once we wrap up this current storyline. If that remake were able to incorporate or acknowledge the previous film's story (per the 2005 remake), then I'm even more for it. But if we end up with another F13 or Elm Street remake, count me out completely. Oh, I agree 100% The presence of the young doesn't necessitate the lack of an artistic integrity, but unfortunately, it is often the first sign of something being treated as product, not with the reverence an existing beloved horror property usually deserves. Since we're talking about horror remakes, a random example: Wes Craven has provided a creative presence on the remakes of The Hills Have Eyes and The Last House on the Left, and I found both of those remakes not only to match their originals, but actually exceed them (especially in the case of the original Last House, which I can't say I ever liked). But then, to borrow one of your own examples, Craven had nothing to do with the Nightmare remake - no one even picked up the phone to see about his involvement - and it was garbage; a cast filled with pretty kids from television shows and a completely wasted Jackie Earl Haley. Here's my ultimate opinion on the whole remake thing when it comes to Phantasm: If Phantasm V provides at LEAST a satisfactory conclusion to this series as we know it, then I would welcome a "rebooted" (ugh) new approach with a bit more open-mindedness, so long as Don was involved creatively. With Don involved, I would trust them to do what's right.
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Post by phantasmaniac on Apr 10, 2014 23:50:27 GMT -5
Yeah I am very thankful we are getting one more Phantasm movie with the great Angus Scrimm, but if Don got the chance to do a big budget trilogy with New Line or whoever I would love it. Imagine what Don can do nowadays with a big budget and a studio that wouldnt hold him back.
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TEOS
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Post by TEOS on Apr 11, 2014 9:33:05 GMT -5
with savini's remake, my take on it was that it was a solid, professionally made scary movie, but ultimately, artistically, historically, "why bother?" and it sort of drifted away and was forgotten about, swallowed up in the shadow of the original. when we're talking about beloved franchises, isn't that going to be the way of things? This is a little off-topic from the thread, but from what I understand about the NOTLD remake: it was less of an attempt to make something artistic, and more of an attempt by Romero and Co. to try and recoup some money they lost over the years from the original NOTLD effing up the whole copyright thing and the film immediately going into public domain. It was a way for them to copyright the title and the concept since people had been ripping it off for years before that. They even used the script Romero had written for the original movie before it was revised while shooting due to budgetary restrictions. And if that's the last remake you saw, that's a shame, because you really are missing out on some good ones. The Dawn of the Dead remake was especially good, I felt - not just a good remake but a good movie in general. I agree that most of them should be avoided, but there are some remakes out there worth seeing.
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Post by OblivionGoon on Apr 11, 2014 12:02:03 GMT -5
They could have called the DAWN remake something else and gotten away with it. The only thing it has in common with the original is the mall.
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Post by fantasyball on Apr 16, 2014 7:44:40 GMT -5
What could be exposed on the Red planet in part V?
He needs slaves there. Is Tall man building a castle for himself with slave labor?
Yes, Tall man is obsessed in controlling Mike, and want's to turn him into an worthy dimension traveler and successor (prince) taking over his throne in the Red planet kingdom.
Next to that, having an successor (who wants to put lots of effort into anything, only to see it fall to oblivion once yo're gone), building the castle is so exhausting for the lurker slave; they die of hard work, so he needs to go back to Earth to refill the quantity of slaves with new.
What is going on on the Red planet behind that horizon or hill???
All the rocks would work fine for the castle building. If there is a castle, it's rational enough for me!!!
Do you guys got any other explanations, theories on the subject???
I hope we will get answers to that - Tall man's motivation and work on the Red planet and if it has some connection to his obsession with Mike.
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Post by krakenslayer on Apr 16, 2014 10:08:42 GMT -5
I suspect the Red Planet is not the Tall Man's actual home world, not final layer of the onion, so to speak.
My pet theory is that the Tall Man is under the control of some nebulous extraterrestrial intelligence - perhaps an alien race, perhaps a machine consciousness - that moves from world to world stripping them of their resources. Their modus operandi involves harvesting the sentient inhabitants of each new world and using them as slaves to work on mining, drilling, deforesting and demolishing the previous planet, which was itself depopulated to strip the planet before that, which was depopulated to strip the planet before that, and so on. Like a virus. So the Red Planet is the last unfortunate world to be visited by the spheres.
This system would involve creating a new Agent - perhaps using a combination of mechanical, biological and psychical techniques - that can fit into each civilisation without being noticed, in order to control and mastermind the harvest. The Agent is based on the template of the first exceptional member of the host species encountered, but the template fades and distorts over time and as iterations of the Agent are damaged and destroyed, hence the Tall Man's apparent increase in age every time he is killed, and the eventual need to replace him with Mike.
It is even possible that there is no Intelligence behind the curtain. With sufficiently advanced systems in place, this process could self-perpetuate far beyond the demise of the original species that instigated it, and it s now just an unstoppable chain-reaction, with no one at the helm, destroying worlds without any real purpose or motive.
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Post by OblivionGoon on Apr 16, 2014 11:52:22 GMT -5
Stephen Romano's comic hints on some of the alien aspects.
Good stuff Krakenslayer!
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Post by postmortem on Apr 16, 2014 14:58:47 GMT -5
I suspect the Red Planet is not the Tall Man's actual home world, not final layer of the onion, so to speak. My pet theory is that the Tall Man is under the control of some nebulous extraterrestrial intelligence - perhaps an alien race, perhaps a machine consciousness - that moves from world to world stripping them of their resources. Their modus operandi involves harvesting the sentient inhabitants of each new world and using them as slaves to work on mining, drilling, deforesting and demolishing the previous planet, which was itself depopulated to strip the planet before that, which was depopulated to strip the planet before that, and so on. Like a virus. So the Red Planet is the last unfortunate world to be visited by the spheres. This system would involve creating a new Agent - perhaps using a combination of mechanical, biological and psychical techniques - that can fit into each civilisation without being noticed, in order to control and mastermind the harvest. The Agent is based on the template of the first exceptional member of the host species encountered, but the template fades and distorts over time and as iterations of the Agent are damaged and destroyed, hence the Tall Man's apparent increase in age every time he is killed, and the eventual need to replace him with Mike. It is even possible that there is no Intelligence behind the curtain. With sufficiently advanced systems in place, this process could self-perpetuate far beyond the demise of the original species that instigated it, and it s now just an unstoppable chain-reaction, with no one at the helm, destroying worlds without any real purpose or motive. Excellent thinking!!! Yes, I too always figured the dwarves were being used for mining. For me, though, they were mining something very essential for the Tall Man to continue. Though I kind of doubted that the Red Planet was the Tall Man's actual home. And, yes, I always considered the Tall Man to be based on a template (Jebediah)--an aging human who would eventually need to be replaced. I wrote a story that touched on these--with Jebediah being duplicated and kept in a near-stasis (accounting for his continued "existence" (as the Tall Man) over one hundred years later. The story was in an anthology of phan fiction published by Rick Elkin back in 1999 with Don's blessing. I love your idea of a Borg-oriented harvesting of all the various worlds encountered; a domino effect. I especially loved your calling the Tall Man (and potentially Michael Pearson) an "Agent." I always liked the hidden aspect of the Tall Man taking over a small town, working in secret. It was a little like "Invaders from Mars" or something. I do believe there is a purpose, however. Not just an out of control chain reaction. Part of me still feels that there should be some very definite roots in the Tall Man being the Grim Reaper. Although I adore the sci-fi angle, "Phantasm" worked best--initially--as a story about a young boy coping with Death (that of his parents and brother, and also of the Angel of Death himself, personified by the Tall Man). The farther away from that theme the series veers, the weaker the Tall Man seems in my opinion. I also don't want him to be a minor underling of an overmind. A lot of phans have started to take things in that direction. But the Tall Man, to me, was always THE chief evil--in ways far beyond Judeo-Christian mythos, etc. Great brainstorming! You really need to start writing a book! I'd buy it!
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Post by fantasyball on Apr 16, 2014 15:30:38 GMT -5
Well, the sci-fi theory might get more followers by the fact that the part V teaser trailer shows an extremely large sphere -- much like an space ship visiting Earth...
I do find it important to stick to what is actually shown or said within the actual movies, to bring stuff into the fry pan from comics and stuff only confuse things.
Myself, I can't stop level the psychological trauma theory which has its entire focus on Mike and his beliefs. Tall man is, IMO, the Grim reaper -- maybe combined with the book Mike is reading: the story "My Name is Legion" by sci-fi author Roger Zelazny. That book is about an invader robot. Mike's fear and first understanding of the concept of death, together with that sci-fi book = Phantasm. That book is the only sci-fi "INPUT" I can find IN the first movie, not adding comics and other stuff.
When it comes to the psychological view of Phantasm -- from Mikes point of view -- there must be a final layer of the onion: the final layer of his own fantasy, and that might be OUTER SPACE itself. In the first movie that is the final layer, and no more layer has come WITHIN the movies since.
What gives the psychological theory legit is the fact that only Mike can turn Tall Man off, by saying "it's the wind..." or by realizing when people say it's in his imagination. Tall Man is a personification of Mikes view on death. If you believe that Tall Man is the wind, well then he will appear whenever you feel the cold wind on your skin...
Back to topic. Within the movies Red planet is the mind twisting last layer, and that is why it is interesting. But all that might change very soon when we all have seen the new movie. And that big sphere might be just that space ship you guys seem to believe in, coming to help their agent in his time of desperation.
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Post by krakenslayer on Apr 16, 2014 17:10:18 GMT -5
Great points guys. I think it in important to separate what the Tall Man/Red Planet represent within a literal narrative interpretation, and what they represent within a potential psychological/dream-cycle/grief-escape-fantasy interpretation. We can explore both of these ideas separately but simultaneously; they don't have to be mutually exclusive. If the Tall Man *is* physically real within the world of the films, then his magical/technological ability to control humans, read minds and warp reality might well allow him to use Mike's loss to his advantage, entering and manipulating his grief-stricken fantasies for his own ends, even bringing some of it to life and using it as a cover. Therefore, examining the psychological aspects is still a worthwhile thing to do. If the Tall Man and the Red Planet are purely fictitious elements of Mike's imagination, then the literalist interpretation is still worth examining since it forms the basis of Mike's dream narrative. If the answer lies somewhere in between these theories - for example, in a Lovecraftian dream-cycle-type scenario, in which both dreams and "reality" are treated as equally real, existing alongside one another in one dimension-spanning consciousness - then once again both paths are worth following. It's interesting, Postmortem, what you say about the Tall Man representing the Grim Reaper. Aside from a simple personification of death, the archetype of the Grim Reaper seems to often be represented in Western mythology as a mysterious Agent of a greater power with plans and methods that are supposedly beyond the understanding of humans... Fantasyball: that's an interesting reference with the novel. The most obvious dream-hint, to me, was the huge "moonscape" poster hanging over Mike's bed. Looks kinda familiar... EDIT: Here youtu.be/Gpl0wafZTSA?t=1h1m15s
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Post by postmortem on Apr 16, 2014 21:09:26 GMT -5
... If you believe that Tall Man is the wind, well then he will appear whenever you feel the cold wind on your skin... (Shudder) This was a beautiful and eerie thought, and it struck a chord in me. I remember how simple things like the wind, crickets on a summer night, the sound of ice cream truck bells, a funeral organ, an ancient horse drawn hearse in Tombstone, Arizona, dusty old photos in an antique store... all gave me such a horrified fascination--dread mixed with wonder. All these things meant "Phantasm" to me in its purest form. The spheres, the spacegate, the Red Planet were all amazing, but they didn't compare to the chill of walking through an old cemetery, or seeing a town mortuary. Just the simplest things from childhood--staying up late and walking the neighborhood in the quiet midnight hours with no one around, or reaching into the back of a Good Humor truck's freezer to grab an ice cream bar (yup--I spent a summer as an ice cream vendor) made me think "Phantasm." Thank you, Fantasyball, for reminding me of what "Phantasm" really meant to me and felt like back in 1979. Smiling now!
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Post by fantasyball on Apr 17, 2014 3:54:28 GMT -5
Thanks postmortem, you made me very happy now!!
I like this discussion.
We can all understand the literal narrative no matter if Tall Man emanated from outer space or from inside of Mike's mind.
I see it as two directions:
1. either Tall Man emanates from Mike's mind, and can be delt/stopped that way. (psychological, from the inside)
2. or Tall Man emanates from "outside" and is as real as you and me, and his invasion must be stopped as an extraordinary material entity, beaten by pushing his weak spots. (physical threat)
It comes down to what is he made of, and how is he stopped -- by psychic or physical actions???
No matter what, can we understand the movies from what's within the movies, show to us or said to us. There is no proof of an alien yet: nothing said or shown this far (maybe in part V who knows).
So I guess that we agree, though we use different words. I prefer him to be "a ghost of a disordered mind" (as said in the trailer for part II) since it's more hopeful to destroy him that way.
But how come Reggie goes along/plays along? In the end of part I, he promise Mike to help him, and he stay by his word throughout the movies. Jody, can't be relied - he stays unreliable throughout the movies. For Mike this is the "reality" -- and his is the Dream master, IMO. If he believes Reggie will help him, he will.
The sad part of this "mind" view, is that probably Mike is crazy all the way since the accident of loosing his parents (and brother). Maybe the only gaze of reality he ever gets is seeing the Lady in lavendel for one sec -- the nurse -- standing next to him in his sick bed, turning into to "Grim reaper"/Tall Man. What is there for Mike to wake up to??? Nothing... a lost life. So lets continue fight the Death! Mike has a material thinking; what he believes turn into material manifestations. He is the Dream master, and center around what everything turns (incl Tall Man).
Since they promise new material shown of the Red planet, we're going to get SOME answer, and questions to think of. That is why the new/more material of the Red planet is so interesting: it is new stuff.
Time will tell...
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Post by gopher in heat on Apr 17, 2014 12:28:12 GMT -5
I do believe there is a purpose, however. Not just an out of control chain reaction. Part of me still feels that there should be some very definite roots in the Tall Man being the Grim Reaper. Although I adore the sci-fi angle, "Phantasm" worked best--initially--as a story about a young boy coping with Death (that of his parents and brother, and also of the Angel of Death himself, personified by the Tall Man). The farther away from that theme the series veers, the weaker the Tall Man seems in my opinion. I also don't want him to be a minor underling of an overmind. A lot of phans have started to take things in that direction. But the Tall Man, to me, was always THE chief evil--in ways far beyond Judeo-Christian mythos, etc. Bingo bango. I concur 100% with this view on the series and the Tall Man/Mike. I like Phantasm most when it's rooted in the real, and kept simple. That's probably why for me, the first film resonates much more.
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