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Post by pharrout on Oct 8, 2016 7:30:49 GMT -5
Hi,
Now that most fans have seen Phantasm Ravager, how would you have made the plotline?
If i was in charge of Ravager, i would've:
1. Brought back Liz, and make her Mike's wife (in an alternate reality). Like Jody, she could re-appear in the series. (In an alternate reality, Liz did not die in the hearse explosion, but was actually to Mike--which explains her P2 appearance.)
2. Reggie's dream - only P4 would've been Reggie's dream -- all the other P1-P3 would've been real events with only a few alternate realities mixed in (i.e. explaining Liz's connection to Mike-- as having been ).
3. Explained James Legros (maybe show his head in the tall man's trophy case on red planet, or have him and Baldwin cross paths in a dimension fork). Angus said that he believed James would've participated in a cameo (if asked to).
4. Removed the drama/sadness aspect - No Dementia story (nursing home). I feel like this made our hero Reggie look vulnerable and weak. I think Reggie is an action hero, and Ravager made him appear weak and vulnerable (during certain parts). This is why Ash (Evil Dead) is successful, he remains an action hero--even though he's aging.
5. Action, horror, sci-fi only.
6. Mike and Reggie are the main cast and are in 90% of film together.
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Post by krowston on Oct 9, 2016 2:37:46 GMT -5
Legros & Baldwin crossing paths in a dimensional fork would have been outstanding.
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Post by bartholomew on Oct 9, 2016 14:11:59 GMT -5
Legros & Baldwin crossing paths in a dimensional fork would have been outstanding. I know a number of phans expected the film to answer a lot of questions and this was one of them. I knew the Legros (Mike) was never going to be answered. The fact is, they couldn't use the real Mike in P2 and he was a replacement. I expected the last film not to answer all the questions. I watched this movie 5x since it was released and also on big screen. The more I watch it, the more I really like it. Just seeing the Tall Man in his final Phantasm film makes Ravager one of my favorite. He was scarey as hell in his final role. He did speak more than I expected but his performance was one of the best ever.
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Post by pharrout on Oct 9, 2016 19:46:19 GMT -5
Legros & Baldwin crossing paths in a dimensional fork would have been outstanding. I know a number of phans expected the film to answer a lot of questions and this was one of them. I knew the Legros (Mike) was never going to be answered. The fact is, they couldn't use the real Mike in P2 and he was a replacement. I expected the last film not to answer all the questions. I watched this movie 5x since it was released and also on big screen. The more I watch it, the more I really like it. Just seeing the Tall Man in his final Phantasm film makes Ravager one of my favorite. He was scarey as hell in his final role. He did speak more than I expected but his performance was one of the best ever. Good that you enjoy it. Let's say, in hindsight, if Ravager came out in 1999(knowing that Angus would have another 15 years with us), would you feel satisfied with Ravager (if it were the final installment)? I think that's the issue, Oblivion had an open ending, and Don said he made P5 because fans felt Oblivion didn't answer their questions. I think somewhere during writing Ravager with Hartman, Don decided to scrap the idea of closing the series with answers. I think most phans wanted closure, and could see past the CGI issues, but since we didn't get closure (and Angus is now gone), it kinda sucks.
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Post by phantasmal on Oct 12, 2016 22:31:39 GMT -5
Personally, I don't have any problem with explaining why Legros played Mike in the film. It's not like the character is a different character - it's just that the character was played by another actor. That fact completely sucks, but I just view the character as Mike. It's as if I imagine Baldwin in the role. So there's nothing to "resolve" as to why he looks different.
Had I done Phantasm V, it would have been much different. I've thought of lots of ideas over the years, but here's the main ones:
1. Bring back Rocky and Tim. Two very cool characters. In a Phantasm film, there are an almost limitless number of ways to show that Tim survived and was not actually killed in Phantasm III. Bring them back early in the movie. After all, the movie ends the same way Phantasm I ended, and Mike was still alive.
2. Have far more screen time for Mike and especially for Jody, who never gets enough screen time. I can't understand that. Bill Thornbury is an awesome actor, he needed far more screen time.
3. Give us answers, and above all end the series on an upbeat note, but perhaps with a sinister twist.
Here is the rough outline of my Phantasm V, if somewhat undeveloped and disjointed as I write it...
I would pick up from Phantasm IV. Reggie steps through the gate and finds himself on the Red Planet. He is attacked by dwarves and spheres and eventually runs out of ammo (after blasting the hell out of dozens of them). Jody shows up in sphere form and destroys a whole gaggle of dwarves, then changes to human form and takes Reggie back through the gate. They pick up Mike and cart him off to some safe place (maybe Sally's antique store - loved that place!). The trio load up the Cuda and head off to plan their future battles.
As they travel across the country, they pass through town after town - each destroyed like the ones in Phantasm II and III. They scavenge what they can, picking up equipment along the way. At some point early on in the movie, the trio encounter Rocky and Tim. Rocky explains that she had a change of heart just after leaving in Phantasm III and circled back in the hearse ("I figured you boys would need my help!"). She went inside, found Tim being tied down by dwarves (this was going on while the Tall Man was dealing with Reggie) and kicked some ass, freeing Tim. They left, assuming the Tall Man had killed Reggie (logical, considering what Tim last saw in Phantasm III). So the trio now becomes a team of five. They head out, looking for equipment and recruits.
Eventually they work their way back to the original Morningside, as Mike intuitively suggests "we have to go back to where it all began". They pass through some horribly devastated areas on the way back. Battles ensue, etc.
At Morningside, they discover the place abandoned. It was partially destroyed when Reggie closed the gate in Phantasm I. In the ruins they find a journal and other information left behind by the Tall Man. The burnt journal is all that is left of his papers and writing. The team can only read parts of it, which indicate that Jebediah was indeed mortal but became the Tall Man after first stepping through the gate (as we saw in Phantasm IV). More answers are needed. The team (somehow, haven't thought this out yet) realizes that only by destroying every gate can they stop the Tall Man. If you kill his body, death simply manifests a new one through the gates. Destroy all the gates, and death's agent has no access to our world. The team travels the country destroying every gate they see listed on a map of gates discovered in Morningside Masuoleum.
Jody then opens a gate to the past, where they sneak into Jebediah's laboratory. There they find the original, undamaged journal. In it, Jebediah writes about his theories pertaining to death. He believed that it would be possible to avoid death if only he could find its source. When he discovered the dimensional gates, he was transported to the Red Planet, which is a Hell-like afterlife place. The Realm of Death. There he was taken over by the spirit of death itself as punishment for trying to defy death. He became death's manifestation. He is an unholy, supernatural being now. He writes in his journal that death often manifests an "agent" to challenge entire worlds and see if they are worthy of continued life (think "Galactus" from Marvel Comics in a sense). The Tall Man is simply death's manifestation on planet Earth, its agent, testing us to see if we as a people are worthy of being allowed to thrive and exist or whether the entire planet is weak and needs exterminating.
Realizing the fate of the planet is indeed at stake and we're losing, the team enters another gate back to the present/earth and look for the Tall Man. Soon they find a newly conquered town, face off against gravers and dwarves and spheres, and other undead. They make it to the latest mausoleum/HQ for the Tall Man. There they discover the final gate to the Red Planet in the adjacent graveyard. The team gets in the Cuda, Reggie floors it and goes on two wheels through the gate (Bob Ivy stunt time!). They are now on the Red Planet, looking for the Tall Man. After blasting their way through dwarves and gravers, they face off with the Tall Man. A major battle ensues, with dwarves being blown apart and run over, the Tall Man sending dwarven versions of Reggie/Jody/Mike's families at they (they're horrified, this makes the battle very difficult). The Tall Man sends new types of spheres at them. Mike is able to exert some control over the spheres. It turns out that the Pearson family are the descendents of Jebediah Morningside. Michael was intended to take over the Tall Man's role at some point, when he ran out of bodies. Mike was picked not only because of being Jebediah's descendent, but because he also fought so hard against death (it's what all the movies are about). The Tall Man (Jebediah) now believes that death must test entire worlds and destroy those who are not worthy of survival (i.e. those who cannot defeat him). Evil though he may be, he thinks that giving this duty to Mike is an honor and something he should not fight against.
Eventually, the team is able to use cryogenic material to encase the Tall Man in solid ice. They spray him down with liquid helium and freeze him. Mike and Jody open a gate to some frozen dimensional world and throw the no-frozen Tall Man through. They shut down the gate, then pass through the final gate from the Red Planet to earth, then destroy that gate.
The team cheers and parties! The Tall Man is finally defeated! As they drive off into the sunset, determining how to repopulate the planet (Reggie tells Rocky that it's their duty to the human race to "get it on baby!"), resulting in laughs and eye rolling from everyone, and some wise crack from Rocky. The Cuda is seen driving into the sunset, with Mike saying to them "Finally, after all these long - it's finally, truly over!".
In the distance, out of view, we see two dimensional forks. A whisper of "It's never over" echoes through the air. Mike says "Did anyone else hear that?". Jody looks around and says "Nah, it's just the wind." (Replay of Phantasm I as a tribute). The team laughs and continues driving. Just before the end credits, we hear the word "Boooooy!" in the background and see the Tall Man standing alone by the gate/fork looking at the Cuda in the distance. He simply nods and smiles.
Is that an acknowledgment that it truly is over? Does it mean he's back, and it's never truly over? Or does he mean it's not over in the sense that other planets will be tested? It's open to interpretation.
Anyway, that's my rough summary of what my Phantasm V would be like.
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Post by garmonbozia on Oct 13, 2016 9:01:18 GMT -5
Ha! I really like your phantasm 5 idea. Might be difficult to do on a small budget but it's pretty great. Now that Angus's passing has made a part 6 pretty much an impossibility, I wonder if something like this could be done as a comic series or graphic novel. I mean, there are puppet master comics, so why not? (I also always wanted a Feast 4 comic adaptation since we never got that film.)
I had always assumed they were setting Mike up to be the next tall man so that when they did the inevitable reboot with a younger central cast, there would still be a link to the original films' storyline. I suppose they could still do a part 6 where Mike fully becomes the tall man and Rocky, Jody and Reggie continue the fight but it seems a little late since ravager backed off from the mike-as-the-new-tall-man storyline. Still, if they made a phantasm TV show or web series or even reboot, I'd of course give it a shot
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Post by pharrout on Oct 13, 2016 9:43:51 GMT -5
Personally, I don't have any problem with explaining why Legros played Mike in the film. It's not like the character is a different character - it's just that the character was played by another actor. That fact completely sucks, but I just view the character as Mike. It's as if I imagine Baldwin in the role. So there's nothing to "resolve" as to why he looks different. Had I done Phantasm V, it would have been much different. I've thought of lots of ideas over the years, but here's the main ones: 1. Bring back Rocky and Tim. Two very cool characters. In a Phantasm film, there are an almost limitless number of ways to show that Tim survived and was not actually killed in Phantasm III. Bring them back early in the movie. After all, the movie ends the same way Phantasm I ended, and Mike was still alive. 2. Have far more screen time for Mike and especially for Jody, who never gets enough screen time. I can't understand that. Bill Thornbury is an awesome actor, he needed far more screen time. 3. Give us answers, and above all end the series on an upbeat note, but perhaps with a sinister twist. Here is the rough outline of my Phantasm V, if somewhat undeveloped and disjointed as I write it... I would pick up from Phantasm IV. Reggie steps through the gate and finds himself on the Red Planet. He is attacked by dwarves and spheres and eventually runs out of ammo (after blasting the hell out of dozens of them). Jody shows up in sphere form and destroys a whole gaggle of dwarves, then changes to human form and takes Reggie back through the gate. They pick up Mike and cart him off to some safe place (maybe Sally's antique store - loved that place!). The trio load up the Cuda and head off to plan their future battles. As they travel across the country, they pass through town after town - each destroyed like the ones in Phantasm II and III. They scavenge what they can, picking up equipment along the way. At some point early on in the movie, the trio encounter Rocky and Tim. Rocky explains that she had a change of heart just after leaving in Phantasm III and circled back in the hearse ("I figured you boys would need my help!"). She went inside, found Tim being tied down by dwarves (this was going on while the Tall Man was dealing with Reggie) and kicked some ass, freeing Tim. They left, assuming the Tall Man had killed Reggie (logical, considering what Tim last saw in Phantasm III). So the trio now becomes a team of five. They head out, looking for equipment and recruits. Eventually they work their way back to the original Morningside, as Mike intuitively suggests "we have to go back to where it all began". They pass through some horribly devastated areas on the way back. Battles ensue, etc. At Morningside, they discover the place abandoned. It was partially destroyed when Reggie closed the gate in Phantasm I. In the ruins they find a journal and other information left behind by the Tall Man. The burnt journal is all that is left of his papers and writing. The team can only read parts of it, which indicate that Jebediah was indeed mortal but became the Tall Man after first stepping through the gate (as we saw in Phantasm IV). More answers are needed. The team (somehow, haven't thought this out yet) realizes that only by destroying every gate can they stop the Tall Man. If you kill his body, death simply manifests a new one through the gates. Destroy all the gates, and death's agent has no access to our world. The team travels the country destroying every gate they see listed on a map of gates discovered in Morningside Masuoleum. Jody then opens a gate to the past, where they sneak into Jebediah's laboratory. There they find the original, undamaged journal. In it, Jebediah writes about his theories pertaining to death. He believed that it would be possible to avoid death if only he could find its source. When he discovered the dimensional gates, he was transported to the Red Planet, which is a Hell-like afterlife place. The Realm of Death. There he was taken over by the spirit of death itself as punishment for trying to defy death. He became death's manifestation. He is an unholy, supernatural being now. He writes in his journal that death often manifests an "agent" to challenge entire worlds and see if they are worthy of continued life (think "Galactus" from Marvel Comics in a sense). The Tall Man is simply death's manifestation on planet Earth, its agent, testing us to see if we as a people are worthy of being allowed to thrive and exist or whether the entire planet is weak and needs exterminating. Realizing the fate of the planet is indeed at stake and we're losing, the team enters another gate back to the present/earth and look for the Tall Man. Soon they find a newly conquered town, face off against gravers and dwarves and spheres, and other undead. They make it to the latest mausoleum/HQ for the Tall Man. There they discover the final gate to the Red Planet in the adjacent graveyard. The team gets in the Cuda, Reggie floors it and goes on two wheels through the gate (Bob Ivy stunt time!). They are now on the Red Planet, looking for the Tall Man. After blasting their way through dwarves and gravers, they face off with the Tall Man. A major battle ensues, with dwarves being blown apart and run over, the Tall Man sending dwarven versions of Reggie/Jody/Mike's families at they (they're horrified, this makes the battle very difficult). The Tall Man sends new types of spheres at them. Mike is able to exert some control over the spheres. It turns out that the Pearson family are the descendents of Jebediah Morningside. Michael was intended to take over the Tall Man's role at some point, when he ran out of bodies. Mike was picked not only because of being Jebediah's descendent, but because he also fought so hard against death (it's what all the movies are about). The Tall Man (Jebediah) now believes that death must test entire worlds and destroy those who are not worthy of survival (i.e. those who cannot defeat him). Evil though he may be, he thinks that giving this duty to Mike is an honor and something he should not fight against. Eventually, the team is able to use cryogenic material to encase the Tall Man in solid ice. They spray him down with liquid helium and freeze him. Mike and Jody open a gate to some frozen dimensional world and throw the no-frozen Tall Man through. They shut down the gate, then pass through the final gate from the Red Planet to earth, then destroy that gate. The team cheers and parties! The Tall Man is finally defeated! As they drive off into the sunset, determining how to repopulate the planet (Reggie tells Rocky that it's their duty to the human race to "get it on baby!"), resulting in laughs and eye rolling from everyone, and some wise crack from Rocky. The Cuda is seen driving into the sunset, with Mike saying to them "Finally, after all these long - it's finally, truly over!". In the distance, out of view, we see two dimensional forks. A whisper of "It's never over" echoes through the air. Mike says "Did anyone else hear that?". Jody looks around and says "Nah, it's just the wind." (Replay of Phantasm I as a tribute). The team laughs and continues driving. Just before the end credits, we hear the word "Boooooy!" in the background and see the Tall Man standing alone by the gate/fork looking at the Cuda in the distance. He simply nods and smiles. Is that an acknowledgment that it truly is over? Does it mean he's back, and it's never truly over? Or does he mean it's not over in the sense that other planets will be tested? It's open to interpretation. Anyway, that's my rough summary of what my Phantasm V would be like. Dude, Phantasmal, that is an amazing script. The funny thing about it, it wouldn't be that difficult to pull off (money-wise). It would be fair to all the phans, for those that want an open-ending, and for those that want more closure/answered questions. In regards to Legros, i simply would just like to see them cross paths for like 60 secs in a dimensional fork, just as a homage to James' contribution to the series. They wouldn't even have to call him Mike. But, to add to your script, Reggie (while with Jody,Rocky, and Tim) could see Legros very briefly (in one of the dimension forks), then pause (startled). Jody would say, "What's wrong Reg?" Reggie would say, "I don't know... "I thought I saw something" This would be only 60 seconds or so, but it would pay homage to Legros' contribution to the series. A way to say "Thank you James" This would also add some intrigue (for fans to question) and satisfy those who want to keep the mystery/unknown element (in Part 5)
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Post by garmonbozia on Oct 13, 2016 11:22:25 GMT -5
I liked Ravager but I do really wish we could've gotten a Legros cameo. Man that would've been cool
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Post by phantasmal on Oct 15, 2016 5:19:16 GMT -5
Pharrout wrote:
Thanks! Glad you liked the ideas. I think the additions you made would really add to it as well. And I think that is the big issue - make the fans happy. Ravager was no way to end a legacy.
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Post by pharrout on Oct 15, 2016 9:46:52 GMT -5
Thanks! Glad you liked the ideas. I think the additions you made would really add to it as well. And I think that is the big issue - make the fans happy. Ravager was no way to end a legacy. It would be pleasing if they somehow could officially re-brand P5 (Ravager) as the Halloween III of the series (i.e. a just a spinoff--alternate view-Reggie's Tales), then make a P6 (official canon) based on your plot. They could use outtake footage of Angus from P1-P5 (i.e. it wouldn't require a lot of action/dialogue. He could just be in the white room (the entire film), or his lair on the Red Planet) overseeing the final chapter of destruction (from his crystal ball--aka silver "brain" sphere). He would be controlling the "earth-bound" spheres to try and find where Mike was hidden (during the entire film)... all the while, not knowing that the tag team of Reggie,Rocky,Tim &(sphere Jody) located his original papers/blue prints detailing where all the dimension forks are located, and are actively disabling every dimension fork (across the country). A body double could also be used, if necessary for any far away shots of Angus (in the film, P6). This is where some cgi would not be a problem for me. That, and some of the grand scale action/battle scenes. They would just need to focus on tons of gravers and dwarves and zombies as the antagonists (on Reggies,Rocky's,Tims & sphere Jody's) path. Everything else should be practical effect(like P1). Somebody send phantasmal's script to Don. With a few of my minor additions. Hey, a guy can dream... can't he?
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Post by postmortem on Oct 23, 2016 0:14:16 GMT -5
I loved reading phantasmal's script ideas too! I loved the idea that Jebediah melded with and became Death incarnate as a punishment. That goes along with Angus Scrimm always saying he forever felt that the Tall Man truly WAS Death. I found it intriguing that the Pearsons are descended from Morningside. Not really necessary--and we never saw a love interest with Jeb unless you consider the Fortuneteller to be "Mrs. Tall Man." But I did like very much that Mike and all humanity are being tested by Death to see if they are worthy. Perhaps it's a more Biblical take on things, but done right, the Tall Man could even be seen as more an extension of God, instead of something Other and mostly evil. Especially loved phantasmal's ending of the Tall Man being frozen in another dimension/world, but coming back through a missed spacegate and smiling--my take being that they all passed the test and Earth/Mike are spared for now (guess I'm an optimist). Good job! Back in 1999 I wrote "The Portal" short story which centered on Jebediah and how/why he came to invent the dimensional fork. It was published in a very limited edition anthology of fan fiction and officially blessed by Don. I had Jeb held prisoner on the Red Planet, in a protective cage of sorts that was almost a stasis chamber, slowing the passage of time. The Tall Man was a being on the planet that used Jeb as a template to take on human form and regenerate each time Mike killed him on Earth. Jeb's slow aging--and malnourished/frail health--would be apparent in each new manifestation of the Tall Man (which would explain why Angus looked so different in each film). I left the ending very open. I started, but never finished a sequel to the story because a followup anthology that had been a possibility never materialized. But "Portal 2" (no, not the game--lollol) would have been a continuation of Jeb's story. Jeb would see Mike falling through the sky (from P1). He would have conversations with the Tall Man about the "game" being played with young Mike Pearson. It would give Jeb hope to hang on--the possibility of an ally that was in some temporary way defeating the Tall Man. But then he would have a brush with death (heart attack perhaps) that would require that a--now desperate--Tall Man, would need to return him to Morningside in 1979. And this would be the driving force for the Tall Man suddenly needing to replace one body (Jeb) with another (Mike) instead of finishing the game with young Pearson (killing Mike). I threw in other back stories. I made the Lady in Lavender a romantic interest for Jeb in the 19th century--and an alternate form (more like a memory/ghost/siren) the Tall Man takes at times with Jebediah. I explained how the Fortuneteller seemingly turned evil and had lived for more than a century. I brought back the "Fortuneteller's Granddaughter" as descendant of Jeb/Lavender. Jeb would slowly heal and develop a plan to kill the Tall Man, but all his efforts would fail. Until he would finally be found by the Pearsons. Ultimately Jeb would be the key to stopping the Tall Man as Jeb alone would know how to permanently destroy the portals both in the past and in the very distant future. Kind of like phantasmals' idea of destroying all the spacegates, except that I felt the dimension of Time was of utmost importance to the equation. Plus, the gate truly had to be destroyed physically and temporally, and this meant a Black Hole with Jeb sacrificing himself and the Tall Man together. Probably corny and overly sci-fi, but in my mind it plays out as quite a lightshow! lollol To destroy the portal in the past (one pole of the Time Dimension) I had some ideas about another visit into the past to track down the Tall Man and close of the "beginning" portal; during the Civil War. Partly because I'd touched on Mike as a Civil War soldier in the first story I'd written. The Tall Man would masquerade as Abe Lincoln for a short while to mess with history and prolong the bloodshed and the harvest of bodies. Silly, I'm sure, but kind of creepy too. The black hole/future of humanity in space would be the "future" aspect of the Time Dimension. Ever since I was twelve I've imagined the end of an ever-expanding Universe as a bunch of space colonies mining energy from Black Holes because all the stars and galaxies have long long died away. So the Pearsons and Jeb would have to go to one of these monster black hole stations to close off a final portal. The problem with all this, of course, is that like "Ravager" the story is so tangential. It is Jeb's story, instead of focusing on Mike, Jody and Reg. And it gets too much into hard science fiction, instead of the initial theme of childhood loss and the battle with Death. Still, it was fun imaging all this stuff.
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Post by pharrout on Oct 23, 2016 4:23:07 GMT -5
Whoa Postmortem, that was well thought out. There's so many ways the story can branch out (be it sci-fi, horror, action, fantasy). You took the straight sci-fi approach.
I'll admit that I was never a big fan of the Tall Man is an alien (body-snatcher) type. The "Phan" in me really wants him to be a mortal being (Jebediah/scientist) that somehow turned to pure evil via accident/experimenting with the dimension gates. Any niceness that the Tall Man/Jebediah once possessed is gone forever...
That's neat that Don read your script (1999) and you got his blessing. That's what's so cool about Phantasm Phans, because we all have great ideas based off of P1-P4. I wish Don would of worked on P5 during the early 2000s instead of Bubba Hotep/John Dies At the End, and really developed the story-line and conclusion (instead of Reggie's Tales).
A lot of our ideas are feasible (money-wise), It's just interesting after 37 years, that Don/Hartman opted for a script (Ravager) that is farthest away from any type of reconciliation (conclusion).
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Post by phantasmal on Oct 23, 2016 22:29:37 GMT -5
Postmortem, that was sheer brilliance! I love it! Looks like the only person not making satisfactory endings to the series at this point is Coscarelli himself! LMAO!
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